First off – lets answer the obvious questions…
NO – we are not looking to sell or replace our vintage bus conversion Zephyr.
Nor are we looking to give up on boat life aboard Y-Not!
We still love the idea of spending roughly half the year on the water cruising in our boat, and half on land enjoying desert boondocking and extended explorations in our bus.
And as we move the boat further north, winters will be a chilly incentive to get us off the water and out RVing more months each year.
The catch – the boat will be perpetually on the east coast, and our plan is for the bus to be spending most of its time in the desert southwest – with its “home base” storage location in Benson, AZ on our co-op lot.
And while our Mini Cooper is a great RV toad and marina get-around vehicle – it is NOT comfortable for cross country road trips and relocations, especially when loaded down with cargo and a cat.
We need a better way to move back and forth between our two primary homes.
We crave a better teleportation pod. But what?
First Thought – Replace The Mini???
Our Mini Cooper is getting old and is having increasing issues, and it is the absolute base model lacking in even basics like cruise control. Because of this – we’ve been idly thinking about replacing our Mini Cooper as our toad for the past year or so.
However our bus was never designed to tow something behind it, and there aren’t even any official specs on what the safe towing capacity might be.
We feel good towing something small and light, but we don’t want to push it much beyond the size of a Mini or a small Jeep.
And anything we tow behind the bus will age rapidly living so close to the exhaust of a big Detroit Diesel engine. At least rust would never be a concern, thanks to the perpetual fine mist of oil.
Every time we’d start down the path of hunting for a Mini replacement, we’d give up. There just wasn’t a vehicle that we could find that would be a comfortable cross-country traveler, that was light enough to tow, and which was affordable enough to justify both the wear & tear and our limited use.
But…
What if we gave up on the requirement that our Mini replacement has to be flat towable?
Our future RV travel plans aren’t likely to involve huge driving days, so perhaps traveling in a convoy together would work. I’d drive the bus, and Cherie could scout ahead or follow behind in our smaller vehicle.
Thinking this way changed everything – we could consider all sorts of options now. A Prius, or even a Tesla!
But even if we had a Tesla capable of cruising across the country on semi-autopilot, we’d still be hotel-hopping with a cat whenever we crossed country.
And cannonballing across the country twice a year just wouldn’t be that much fun if we felt forced to do it at such a fast pace.
And with our parents living in Florida, we’re always going to want to combine a trip south from the boat first to spend time with them before heading west anyway – complicating our road trip plans even further.
We’d much rather travel at a slower pace, maybe spending two or three weeks really enjoying and exploring during each seasonal relocation.
And that’s where the thought of replacing the Mini with a small RV was born.
As crazy as it seemed at first, it just started to feel logical.
What if we could find something small enough to use as our east coast errand car, hop-scotching up the coast with the boat giving us a way to locally explore and provision the way we use the Mini Cooper now.
And since we’re slowing down our boat travels with lots of monthly stays, that would give us the opportunity to explore further inland for short camping trips, attend RV events and do more extensive mobile internet gear testing for our work life over at the Mobile Internet Resource Center.
And having ready access to an RV would sure make filming our segments for the upcoming The RVers TV show a heck of a lot easier than trying to juggle rentals and/or borrowing RVs!
And when it comes time to head west, an RV would be a comfortable teleportation pod – big enough to enjoy traveling cross-country in without needing to worry about hotels. We could stay in the parks we love along the way, driveway surf with friends & family, and even blacktop boondock in parking lots when needed.
And when out west, we’d also have a nimble RV for exploring places our bus can’t go.
The more we thought about it, the more we thought….
Why not? (Or is that Y-Not?)
Why not ditch our Mini Cooper, and go with a class B van as our daily driver?
We went to the Tampa RV Super Show this week to start our hunt, and here is our video we made there:
Teleportation Pod Camper Van Requirements
Parking spots in the United States tend to be between 7.5′ and 9′ wide, and 16′ to 20′ long.
We need something that can fit into the sort of parking spots we’ll find at east coast marinas, which means focusing our search on Class-B camper van RV’s that are under 20′ long – though (perhaps) a little bit of overhang might prove to be OK.
We also need something that is easy and fun to drive & park, even in cities.
This probably rules out anything that is large or a wide-body. There are a LOT of 25′ long extended vans, and B+ campers that are absolutely amazing in relatively small spaces – but these would all probably be too big for our needs.
Besides – we aren’t looking for something to full-time in. We just need something suitable for a couple extended cross country road trips and some long weekends each year.
Here are some of the features we are looking for in our ideal teleportation pod:
- Small & Nimble – Obviously this is key. Whatever we get needs to be a great cross-country cruising vehicle, and comfortable as a daily driver – driving both around town and down the interstate.
- Comfortable Bed – Some of the options we have looked at seem to really skimp in this regard. We’d prefer to not be sleeping on what is essentially a folding bench seat. And we prefer a ‘real’ full or queen size bed for snuggling. Unfortunately, convertible beds are quite common in van conversions – as it is a great way to maximize the space.
- Pet Friendly Power System & AC – We want to be able to leave Kiki home while we are out playing, which might mean needing AC to keep her cool. An auto-start generator and/or a smart lithium power system that can keep a cat cool without needing to run a generator non-stop is ideal – and it is cool to see these sorts of advanced systems finally becoming a bit more common.
- Smartly Designed Living Space – We want space for us both to be able to sit and work on our laptops for a couple hours at a time without feeling stuck deep in a cave. We want good ventilation, and screens that let the space feel open while keeping the cat in and the bugs out. And at night, we want privacy and blackout shades. We want a kitchen & bath that is usable, but we don’t necessarily need anything overly posh there.
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Several Class-B floorpans devote the entire rear to the bathroom. We’d prefer to open our rear doors and see.. oh.. nature, not our toilet. But… a Place to Poop Privately – We expect we will rarely want to shower in the van, but we will need a bathroom for other purposes. Having facilities that do not take up too much space, and which can be used without putting on a show is ideal. Some vans we saw had toilets that could only be used with the doors open to the rest of the living area – not our style. Other designs we’ve seen leave out a private bathroom entirely and replace it with a portable potti – been there, done that during our first year in the T@b. Nope. We also need a place for Kiki’s litter box too…
- Quality Build & Good Support – It is no secret that a lot of RVs are poorly built – with very little attention put into design, materials, craftsmanship, or overall build quality. We want to buy something that is built to last, and which will hold its value.
- Geeky & Cool – We are Technomadia after all. The more cutting edge technology we can get, the better. Unfortunately, the latest tech comes in newer models with a heftier price tag. We may need to compromise here and/or plan to do some upgrades on our own later.
- Available – We’d ideally want something we can get our hands on this spring or summer – patience is not one of our virtues once we’ve made up our minds. Our next cross country trip back to the bus could be as early as this summer or next fall. A lot of Class-B manufacturers, especially custom builders, seem to have backlogs over a year long – which rules them out for us unless we somehow get lucky or find something used.
- Affordable – The thought of paying more for a van than we paid for our boat really hurts our heads. We don’t mind paying for quality, but we will be seeking out either an exceptional deal on something new or a well loved used model.
There are a lot of other options that are nice to have, but some aren’t so critical for our needs.
For example – a 4×4 van would be nice, and the Sprinter 4×4 chassis is pretty sweet. But for our intended uses, it is probably overkill and not worth the cost – or the seemingly long wait required to get a rare 4×4 Sprinter chassis.
Ample solar would also be nice – but on a vehicle the size of a van it would be hard to get enough solar to be truly autonomous. And it’s not like we’re setting up to full time or boondock lots – that is what our bus is for. So we’d be fine with just a token amount to keep the batteries topped off while parked.
We also love induction cooking – and prefer compressor fridges to propane. But if we have to go with a propane-centric system, as long as it is smartly designed that is OK.
Diesel or Gas?
Though some people have very strong feelings on this issue – we honestly do not have a preference.
Gas engines tend to be cheaper up front, but slightly less fuel efficient. On the other hand – currently diesel costs more than gas eliminating any savings from that efficiency.
Diesel engines also tend to cost more to service, but they have a longer overall expected lifetime.
With our planned usage – either type of engine could work. We’re more concerned with how well it drives and the overall ergonomics than what kind of fuel we need.
The Hunt Begins: Our Initial Contenders
There are a LOT of companies that make class B RV’s – and our friends Joe & Kait Russo keep up a comprehensive list of manufacturers (currently 25 listed!) that is the best go-to resource we have found.
All of these manufacturers start with a standard van chassis, such as a Mercedes Sprinter, Dodge Promaster, or Ford Transit – so in some ways there is a lot in common up front.
But the customizations that turn a bare van into an RV make all the differences in the world.
Some are mass produced, others are custom designed and made to order, and many are semi-custom with only limited options available.
Some converters even allow (or require!) you to purchase a new or used van on your own, and then you hand it over for transformation.
We’ve only just begun to research options, but here is what on our radar so far – and some initial thoughts.
Under 20′ Options:
There are not a lot of options that are under 20′ long, which is required to comfortably fit into many parking spots.
It takes a lot of smart design to fit all the necessities into a space this small.
- Airstream Interstate Nineteen – Airstream’s only small Class-B is 19′ long and based on a Sprinter chassis. We toured this and overall were not impressed – Airstream feels more focused on style than substance for our personal needs.
- Carado Banff & Axion – Carado has some interesting designs in a more affordable price bracket, but the floorplans all feature the toilet perched in the back door and split twin beds. We’re finding we much prefer a layout that keeps the bath not ‘in view’ when you want air flow from the back doors.
- Hymer Aktiv / Aktiv S – There is a lot to like about the 19’7″ Hymer Aktiv (based on the Roadmaster) or the new Sprinter-based Aktiv-S, and the slightly longer Aktiv 2.0 (20′ 9″) adds a bit more interior space too. These were actually the first vans that tempted us to consider this transporter-pod plan when we did some toe-dipping back in September – and we like Hymer’s EcoTrek lithium battery option and VoltStart generator start feature. But when we toured the Hymer RVs again at the Tampa RV Show we weren’t as impressed as the first time – and we noticed way too many fit-and-finish issues in the models on display. We also were not impressed with the awkward bed setup.
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We were very impressed by the Pleasure Way Ascent TS – it is our favorite under 20′ option we have toured so far. Pleasure-Way Ascent TS – We were very impressed by the Pleasure-Way models we toured at the Tampa RV show, and really liked the quality vibe from the company after spending some time talking with the CEO Dean Rumpel. The Ascent is the smallest Pleasure-Way model, based on a Sprinter chassis. It comes with a 200Ah lithium system, solar, auto-generator start, and Pleasure-Way seems to have made a well balanced set of tradeoffs in putting this design together. But this level of quality comes at a price.
- Roadtrek Simplicity SRT – Though Roadtrek has a huge range of Class B models, the cheapest and simplest Roadtrek was one of the most reasonably priced options we saw at the Tampa RV Show. If we want to keep things basic – this is an option.
- Roadtrek SS Agile – Based on the short Sprinter, the Agile is a higher end model from Roadtrek with a lot of customization options – including an E-Trek package with 800Ah of lithium and 370W of solar. But we just were not blown away by the styling and interior feel when we toured it at the Tampa show – at least, not for the price point.
- Safari Condo – We have not seen any models from this Canadian converter in person, but they have some interesting looking designs ranging from 18′ to 22′ long. It isn’t clear how much of a presence this company has south of the border though.
- Sportsmobile – Sportsmobile has been doing van conversions since the 1960’s, and they offer every possible chassis and size you can imagine. Every Sportsmobile is made to order, and the number of options you can configure is very literally overwhelming. Used Sportsmobiles are rare, and most seem to hold their value. We have not yet had a chance to tour one in person, but are intrigued about looking into what used models might be available.
The new Winnebago Revel is made for adventure – but it is probably not ideal for us. - Winnebago Revel – The 4×4 Sprinter-based Winnebago Revel is really smartly designed, if you are looking for a hardcore adventure vehicle. But a few design tradeoffs make it a very poor fit for our needs – including the way the bathroom is a gear closet, the bed blocks the AC when raised, and storage for things other than mountain bikes and climbing gear is seemingly lacking. But we did like how the bed lowers, and would love to see more murphy/lowering bed options in vans in general.
PS: A special shoutout to the Roadtrek and Winnebago websites.
The Matterport-powered 3D virtual tours they feature are the best way we’ve seen to explore an RV short of visiting one in person, and they have done a great job letting you get in and poke around without actually being there.
We wish every RV manufacture offered virtual tours like this!
Slightly Larger:
If we are open to a bit of overhang while parking, there are a lot more options…
- Advanced RV – Every Advanced RV is custom made on a Sprinter chassis, and they have a reputation for doing some amazing work with a LOT of thought put into well designed systems – including now even 48V Volta lithium. The smaller Advanced RV models are 22’9″ and the larger are 24’1″ – but other than size, the big catch with Advanced RV is the cost and the wait to get one.
- Coachman Crossfit – Based on the Ford Transit chassis, we somehow missed touring the 22’2″ Crossfit at the Tampa show. But our friend Kristin Snow last year traded in a Travato for one of these and she loves it and even uses it as her daily driver.
- Pleasure-Way Lexor TS – The 21′ Lexor models are slightly larger options from Pleasure-Way, built on the Dodge Promaster chassis. It also comes with a 200Ah lithium system. They have all of the features and build quality we appreciated in the Ascent model, and the price tag is a bit lower too thanks to using a gas instead of a diesel engine.
- Roadtrek E-Trek – Roadtrek’s flagship model is “designed for those with a passion for technology and the environment” and it has a lot of geeky goodness aboard its 22’9″ length – including 470W of solar and 800Ah of lithium and a propane-free design that relies on diesel for heat and hot water. Starting price – just $162,006!?!?
- Sportsmobile – See the section above. Sportsmobile does both large and small Class B’s.
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Trying out the bed in the back of a Winnebago Travato G, contemplating our future… Winnebago Travato – We were really impressed with the 21′ Winnebago Travato – especially the new 2019 59GL model which features a 48V lithium battery system from Volta Power Systems that eliminates the need for a generator and uses the engine alternator to charge on-demand when needed. The Travato also comes with 200W of solar standard, and seemed to have a lot of smart design elements throughout. We were far more impressed with the Travato than we thought we would be, and it has us seriously considering if going 21′ is practical.
We’ll have to consider very carefully whether the tradeoffs of going a bit larger are worth it – particularly since we aren’t intending to full-time in a van.
We’d love to hear how well larger class B’s have worked for others when put to use as daily drivers in urban environments, and particularly storing in marina (or similar) parking lots.
How big is too big?
Larger Still?
If we push up into the 24′ – 25′ range, there are a few very impressive options to be had when you look at extended length vans, and some that are technically considered B+ or small C campers that are wider as well as longer and which come with vastly more interior space.
In particular, at the Tampa RV Show we were VERY impressed with the design and overall quality of the Leisure Travel Vans we toured, and the Coach House models were also impressive too.
But if we went that big – that would be replacing Zephyr, not serving as a cross-country transporter and exploration pod.
And that’s just not our goal at the moment, nor is a larger motorhome practical as a daily driver or for marina hopping.
But, should the day come that we’re ready to be a one-RV family again and we decide the bus is too big for future adventures… our curiosity is piqued by these excellent designs.
Why Not DIY or Custom Build?
There are suppliers that provide kits to help people tackle converting a bare van shell into an RV on their own. And there are many who just convert raw shells on their own without kits.
While we love DIY projects, we don’t have the time or a suitable work location to tackle a project like this.
But for those who do have the resources and time to devote, building from scratch or starting with a kit is a great way to go.
There are also many converters out there that will custom build whatever you want out of a van shell.
We’re quite positive the results of doing something custom would be awesome, but we don’t want to invest the design time or the waiting time into something for the limited use we’ll have planned for this vehicle.
But… if anyone has any leads on any van converters that would like to work with us to build a geeked-out Technomadia edition without a year-long wait – we are open to exploring the option.
But overall this time around, a turn key drive it off the lot vehicle seems to be more ideal.
We’ve got enough boat and bus projects to worry about – we don’t want our daily driver to also be a project!
Third Generation Sprinters – Worth Waiting For?
Complicating matters – a lot of our contenders are built on the Mercedes Sprinter chassis, and an all new third generation Sprinter is coming to market in 2019.
The new Sprinter features a completely redesigned dash (with a big touchscreen and support for Apple’s CarPlay) and more advanced technology across the board – making it a “more comfortable, more ergonomic, quieter, and safer” vehicle overall.
It even reportedly has more and better cupholders.
It feels silly to buy any new RV now that will come on a chassis that was designed in 2006 and which is about to be made obsolete – but most class B manufacturers are still waiting to get their hands on the 2019 Sprinter chassis and are not even taking orders for models based upon this yet.
Is it worth waiting for the new Sprinter, or trying to get our hands on one of the first of the new models to be made into an RV?
This isn’t an issue with the ProMaster or Ford, which are not on the verge of such a major refresh.
And of course – if we go used this isn’t really a consideration at all.
The Roadtrek / Hymer Scandal
One of the long-time leaders in the Class B market has been Roadtrek, which was acquired in 2016 by Hymer – which also owns the Sunlight and Carado Class-B brands.
Hymer is now in the process of being acquired by RV giant Thor – leading many to worry just what the future might hold after so much transition. Thor doesn’t have the best reputation for overall quality, after all.
But just in the past few days – things seem to have come crashing down at Hymer North America and RoadTrek before the Thor acquisition deal was even completely closed.
There have been reports of layoffs, sudden executive firings, and allegations of up to $100 million of fraudulent invoices being discovered.
In other words – things are a mess, and forensic accounts are being called in to sort things out while the entire company potentially grinds to a halt.
Until things shake out – we are hesitant to get involved with even consider buying something new from any of the Hymer-related brands that are going through such turmoil.
At least not until any concerns about ongoing quality and support can be addressed.
So – What Next?
We are just now de-cloaking and revealing our secret plan to become part-time van dwellers – and now we need to track down our little shuttlecraft.
We are looking for advice and recommendations on additional options to consider, and leads on worthwhile used models for sale.
Or maybe we can be persuaded to go new.
For something we might only use a few weeks out of the year, it’s really hard to justify the cost of new. It would have to be something really special.
In the meantime, stay tuned for how our search evolves!
The company I’ve been researching is called Leisure Travel. They seem to have smaller, versatile units.
However they might be Class C.
This will be fun to follow and I look forward to finding time to watch your shopping video.
Sincerely, Thom Brown
As we covered above, we love the Leisure Travel Vans too .. but at 25′ they are too big for this purpose.
Great run down of what’s on the market in small vans. It seems like there are almost too many choices. Good luck in your quest!
There are indeed a huge number of choices – particularly if you look at used models that have been discontinued.
Hopefully a great choice for us will bubble to the surface soon – but the hunt is part of the fun. *grin*
Hi Chris and Cherie. In case no one’s mentioned it, Neil Balthaser’s Ultramobility YouTube channel might be another good source of info. He’s done video reviews and comparisons on many of the class B models out there.
Also want to say a big ”Thank you!” for all the info, reviews, and advice you give through Technomadia.
Best of luck in your search and safe travels.
Yes, we’ve been binging the Ultramobility Channel lately.. great resource.
I have a class B and it is has been my only driver for the past year. Mine is a 2006 Leisure travel van when they made vans on the older Sprinter. 22 feet. I love it but it is definitely a trade off. Pluses are easy and comfortable to drive but my seats are an upgrade over stock van seats. It works for me pretty well as a camping machine but I am a solo traveler with a big dog and a cat. It gets tighter with a couple but you have experience with that. I have a generator that runs the AC if needed. It is insulated well enough that open windows and the roof fan keep the interior no hotter than the ambient outside air which is good for the animals. I keep a pail of water for them in the step well. If I had 2′ less, it would be a lot tighter even for me so I’m not sure I would want to go smaller. Mine has the old twin benches in the back which I like a lot better than the couches because it is much more flexible and more storage with a bit of creativity. I have a wet bath located behind the driver’s seat. Yes, it is tight but it gets the job done. I have taken a look at camp showers and turned around to use my own. I do have to empty and refill more often than bigger rigs. Just part of the tradeoffs. Easy to fit into any campsite. Build quality is so so. The worst was grossly undersized power wire that made the fuse block heat up. I doubled the wires, replaced the batteries with 2 100AH lithiums and am in the process of adding 300 watts of solar to the roof. I replaced the fridge with a compressor. My LP one never worked for very long. Cabinets are crappy particle board with wood doors. I replaced most of the bulbs with LEDs.
As a daily driver, It is hard to turn into tight spaces and I avoid downtown if I can. I can do it but it is a lot more bother than driving a car. On the other hand, it has a surprisingly good turning radius for such a beast. Of course parking garages are out of bounds, much too tall. Many parking spaces will just fit her but some do not. I look for two in a row or try to back into one with a grass verge to hang over. There is no parking nearby most of the time so I plan on a bit of a hike, but that is probably good for me. I don’t know anything about marina parking lots. A small class C would be a lot worse because of the width. I have to watch right turns because of length but you know about that from the bus. Driving on the roads is easy except when there are high winds. If I have to on very windy days, I go the back roads with more trees to block the wind. The Sprinter has good stabilization technology but high profile is high profile. Mine has very good mirrors which let me see each rear wheel and a backup camera so I have good visibility. It would be bad without those. The main worry is moving from the left lane into the right because the right side is the hardest to be sure is clear. So all in all, it is fine as a daily driver but I do make some trade offs. Not as easy as a car but it gets the job done.
Sprinters are expensive to maintain and you don’t want just any shop to mess with them. There are fewer than 200 Mercedes shops for them nationwide. My older version is simpler than the newer ones and I don’t have to mess with DEF and I have heard of a lot more problems with the newer diesels.. If I got a new one, I’m not sure I would go for a diesel. It is nice to have 500-600 miles on a tank but I can buy a whole lot of gas for the extra cost of a diesel. I calculated it out and it would take me about 20 years to break even.
Good luck with your search. If you go used, be prepared to jump on it if a good one pops up as they can go fast.
I have seen sportsmobile. Was not impressed with the cabinet quality but you can have it anyway you might want. For a price. The pop top makes it a little easier on height. The one I saw had a whole lot of solar panels on it, even hanging over the edge. The couple had her sleeping in the raised top.
Thank you so much for all this awesome feedback on your experience with vehicles like this.. we super appreciate it! We’ve had the older/smaller LTVs recommended to us a couple of times so far.
Electric VW Bus.
I’d love to see a VW Bus with a Tesla drivetrain and 200+ mile battery range. But I haven’t seen anything that awesome even close to available yet.
I have often thought having a small Class B as part of my RV stable would be an interesting concept. Looking forward to seeing what your decision is. I would however seriously consider keeping the Mini. Keeping it east coast and using when re-positioning the boat. You could tow it behind the Class B for the relatively short drives from marina to marina. I have two toads, a 1996 Geo Tracker and 2006 Honda CRV. I can tow the Geo with the CRV when I need to take one or the other to the shop for repair or maintenance. My repair shop is 20 miles one way from my house. There is the added complexity of having to park two vehicles somewhere. Would need to weigh the benefits against the costs. Will be monitoring as usual to see what you decide. Best of luck.
It’s time to get rid of the Mini.. we really don’t want to have two vehicles for the relatively little we drive around. And then we’d have to store the Mini long term wherever the boat ended up, insure two, keep two registered, pay FL impact fees for a new vehicle, etc. Nah.. can’t see the appeal in that.
Hi Chris & Cheri! We’ve got a 2017.5 Winnebago Travato 59G that has awesome living space and has a few modifications, like blackout curtains that you mentioned. We are currently in NC waiting for the weather to improve so that we may get it cleaned up to sell. We are planning to sell it at PPL in TX once it’s ready. I’d love to give you any insights on the Travato and answer any questions you might have or if you’re interested in taking it for a test run maybe you can save us a trip to TX 🙂
Definitely be in touch.. the 59G is gaining appeal to us, for sure!
I love RV research/shopping! Hope you’re enjoying it. We purchased a 2019 Winnebago Travato 59GL in October with plans to full-time in it. Having never RVd before, we were a little too ambitious and have since decided we are better suited to part-time travel with a home base. We’ll be based out of the St. Augustine starting in February. If you’re still in the area and interested in checking out our GL setup, let me know!
If we’ve not managed to get a second look at one by then, that would be awesome. We love St. Augustine anyway.
Thanks for the shout-out to my van post! So excited that you’re considering a van. It sounds like an ideal option for cross-country travel with Kiki. Boondocking, parking lot overnights, driveway surfing with friends/family, and Harvest Hosts stops are all so much easier with a smaller vehicle. I don’t know the exact situation with parking at marinas, but I will say that I rarely have any trouble parking my 22″² van in normal spots, with just a bit of hang-over at the rear. I don’t notice much difference between the Travato length and the Crossfit’s to be honest..
Having owned both a Promaster and Transit now and having put a lot of miles on each (I have 10k on the Transit already!), if anyone has any questions about the driving experience differences and van build-outs I’m happy to answer them.
We are very eager to hear more about the daily-driver differences between the Promaster and Transit (and the Sprinter too, if anyone else can comment).
Most RV reviews focus on the living space, but not many actually talk comparatively about the driving experience and ergonomics. That you’ve lived with two of the primary chassis options I imagine gives you a very unique perspective.
I should probably write a more in-depth blog post about them, since many people have the same questions when van shopping. 🙂 I don’t have any Sprinter experience, so I unfortunately can’t speak to them at all. Jill Sessa just bought a custom van on an older Sprinter, so you could ask her about hers. I know she did a ton of Sprinter-specific research. I’ve only heard through others who owned them, in the van groups I frequent, that the repairs are more costly and difficult, and that unless you need/want the 4×4, they aren’t worth the extra expense. That’s only second-hand knowledge, however! I can say I didn’t like the ergonomics at all when I sat in a few at dealers, but that’s of course a highly individualized experience. Excited to see they have a redesign coming up, but I’ll probably never own one for the other reasons I mentioned. I also don’t really see myself as a “Sprinter person”, which sounds superficial, but its costliness and look don’t really fit me. 🙂
As for my lived experience using both the Promaster and Transit as a full- or part-time home and a daily driver around town, I found the Promaster to feel much more utilitarian and “delivery van” in its interior and handling, while the Transit feels like a long and tall version of a normal consumer vehicle. It has far more bells and whistles than the Dodge, with much better ergonomics in my opinion. I found the Promaster’s seat height and shape, steering wheel positioning, and the suspension (even after I added Sumo Springs) much less comfortable for long drives, compared to the Transit. There was a lot more cabin wind noise too, and the stereo’s audio was less clear and difficult to hear over other noise. I gave up on audio books on all but the smoothest of roads and least-windy driving days. I’d definitely replace the stereo and speakers if I bought another one. The factory GPS was pretty much unusable, so I relied on my phone in a windshield-mounted cradle using Google or Apple Maps.
In the Transit, it’s very quiet in the cab comparatively, much like a car, and the stereo sound quality seems far better because of it and possibly better speakers. The CarPlay/Ford Sync system is one of my favorite conveniences, and stupidly easy to use when you’re driving solo, with access to all the voice commands for everything from navigation to text messaging.
One complaint many have about both vans are the headlights – they’re up off the ground quite high and they don’t light the road directly in front of you super well, which is really to be expected. Some people have posted about aftermarket replacements, but I haven’t tried any yet. I don’t find the stock lights to be bothersome except in rainy, dark weather conditions. I would be more likely to add fog lights instead, so I don’t blind other drivers with brighter lights set so high up.
I haven’t changed the oil on either myself, so I can’t speak to that experience. Haven’t had a problem getting it done at a Dodge or Ford dealer, though, or even a quick-service place if they have a tall enough bay door. It’s nice that they always have filters in stock. I think only Mercedes will touch a Sprinter?
The sliding door on the Ford is MUCH easier to close, and doesn’t require cracking a window or turning on a fan to close it, like my Promaster often did, especially on an incline. I didn’t have the strength or leverage to close it without doing that, anyway. The Promaster was very air-tight and the door is super heavy, unless they changed it. I like the stock Ford side-tilt windows much better in my Crossfit than the aftermarket sliding ones in the Travato (I always worried about the dogs escaping through them, or a break-in if it wasn’t fully locked), though they do have the newer awning-style ones now, I guess. I’d still worried about my animals getting out of those, or someone prying them open. I’m also not sure about the longevity and clarity of acrylic versus glass, or the ability to replace them easily if needed. The stock Ford windows give me peace of mind that a replacement wouldn’t be weeks of waiting on a special order part. I had my last van broken into in a parking lot, and it was easy to just go to a local glass place or dealer for an immediate replacement of the front window glass. I drove to Alaska and back with a custom window taped shut with clear tape, because a replacement would have taken weeks to receive.
Okay, what am I forgetting? 😀 Let me know any other questions you think of. I wish I was closer to y’all – I’d be happy to let you test drive and even camp in mine. If you decide to make a trip up further north within a few hours of Knoxville, let me know and we could meet up. National Indoor RV Center in Atlanta has a lot of vans, too, including Coachmen and Roadtrek. Sunshine State was amazing to do business with, however, and I’d buy from them again in a heartbeat.
I didn’t see anyone mention this yet, so wanted to caution you on diesel. It seems like you plan on a few long distance trips (to the bus and back) a year followed by more numerous short distance trip seeing trips near where ever the boat docks. With only occasional long distance and frequent short distance trips I would caution against anything diesel that has a DPF system that requires DEF fluid. From personal experience these systems are trouble some even when worked regularly. They need to do frequent ”burns” to clean out their DPF filters. These require very high temps to properly perform the burns, something you won’t achieve on shorter drives. A gas version will have lower mpg values, but I would prefer to pay more in fuel in exchange for a more reliable with less maintenance experience. Diesel makes more sense in higher yearly mileage situations. Good luck on the hunt!
We are open to either gas or diesel – and will weigh the tradeoffs carefully as we narrow things down.
I added a section to the blog post above clarifying our thoughts on this a bit further.
Wishing you all the best as you continue your search. We’re not quite ready for this yet, but we do have plans for an “escape pod” in our future.
One comment i would make regarding parking, 5.5 years of FT RV’ing with a F450 as our only vehicle and yes, parking can be a small challenge, especially at a Trader Joe’s (for some reasons their parking lots always seem narrow), but overall it really hasn’t been that bad.
Yes, we often walk a bit further between the store/restaurant/entrance to the museum, etc., but a little extra exercise is never bad.Yesterday we were driving all over Tucson with our bikes on the bike rack on the back which added a little more challenge but enabled us to get a bike ride done when we were in the middle of running errands.
Excellent idea, makes great sense for how your lifestyle is evolving. I really like the Winnebago Travato and have been impressed with how the FitRV guys (and others) have been able to enhance theirs. Keep in mind there are concerns about the Sprinter’s engine and how it handles biodiesel and other issues (a good summary http://www.stephensservice.com/bluetec-diesel-issuesproblems/).
We’re currently quite intrigued with the Travato, and have been devouring FitRV’s content!
We have owned two Class Bs–a 2001 Roadtrek 170 (a little too small) and now a 2003 20′ Pleasure Way with a pickup camper mostly used on trip to Alaska in between. We loved the Pickup camper, by the way, but in the end we like to be able to “drive away” if necessary when in a parking lot. Most of the time we have two electric bicycles on the back for Rails to Trails which makes our 20′ PW up to 22′ plus–a consideration when thinking about length. We can still park most anywhere at 22′ but find ourselves looking for a places on the edge where we can back in and hang out the back. Without the bikes, we have parked in downtown New Orleans, all over the Raleigh NC area when our kids lived there and in the Kansas State University parking lot for football games. You are right when thinking 20′ is a good length for parking anywhere. Most importantly, we are able to park in our favorite winter Apache Jct State Park for three weeks without hookups & very little generator use because as a daily driver, our batteries are nearly always fully charged.
Outdoorsy is expanding. Maybe they would pay you for one way trips?
Outdoorsy is peer-to-peer rentals – most are privately owned local rentals (pick up and return at the same location). It would take a larger rental organization with a fleet across the country to accommodate one-ways.
We may utilize them in the meantime if we need a short-term local rental for filming ‘The RVers’ before we obtain our van.
Used refurbished Advanced RV good choice
Even though they are longer than we’d like – we’ll definitely have our eye out for used Advanced RV models. But they do seem to be rare and hard to find. Advanced has a great reputation.
This is so relavent right now! Thank you for taking us along with you as you researched in Tampa. One question I’d like to see manufactures address is where to put the litter box. Or at least options for it. Looking toward to what y’all find!
Love your idea of the transportation pod. It makes a lot of sense. Appreciate your taking us along to the RV show. Your ideas on the different RVs are very insightful. A bathroom door is a must. Kiki is so adorable walking to her hotel room in the video. The written material is packed with great information. I am so glad to hear from you again and look forward to more updates.
We were quite impressed with how well Kiki took to hotel hopping.. she’s quite the traveler.
So glad to see you’re back on the blog. Your last entry made me so sad when I thought you weren’t going to do this anymore. But it did teach me a lesson. Making a comment is important to you so I will do my best. When you were separated from your boat during the hurricane I was frankly as concerned about you two and your cat and your boat as if you were my family. I prayed but I did not comment. So having to do with the subject of this blog, my very favorite small RV, sometimes considered a B+ sometimes considered a C is the Winnebago trend 23l. It is not 23 feet, it is 24 feet which is probably too long considering your Marina parking space shortage. But it is only 10 ft tall and fits the width of a regular parking space. It has a dedicated queen bed in the back a spacious bathroom with shower where Kiki’s cat box would easily fit, and a large expanding dining room table that two laptops would very comfortably fit. There is even a full size bed that comes down from the ceiling electronically and the dining room turns into a bed. The two cab seats turn completely around and there’s tons of storage. I would not live full-time in this for very long but a couple of months with my two cats is doable. I have a stick-built house in Portland Oregon and need to get away from the rain in winter and back to my old haunts in Southern California. I do not own this yet but I’m watching for it to come available in my area, used, 2015 or 2016 can be bought for 50K to 60k with super low mileage. I think the only thing that would not be to your liking is the length. Width and height are great and so is the used price. Best of luck to you and your search.
Sounds like a great setup… unfortunately, too long for this particular need.
What an intriguing post! So many options – I’ll be watching closely as you move forward gathering info and eliminating possibilities. I’m also enjoying how you think as you go into this search. Good luck in your van hunting and all the other things you do.
We’ve had great luck with used class Bs: a RoadTrek Versatile, which we loved. Then we fulltimed in a fifth wheel. Now partimers again, we wanted something like the RoadTrek, but with dedicated bed and table (not either/or) and a little more space. We got a rare 1998 Coachmen Starflyte class B+ (22’ and wider). Both class Bs were easier to drive and park than the F350 dually we towed the fiver with! We don’t have any current tech, but are happy with the B+ for short trips. We leave tomorrow for a three week trip; we’ll see how that goes. Next time we go full time we’re going with a class A and toad. We’d never consider brand new, but will go much newer on the class A!
Find yourself a used Born Free…well built and well designed. We bought one new (a 24’ Rear Kitchen) in 98, used it for our vacation travels while we were still working…we retired in 2014 and took it to Alaska for the full summer. When we returned from our Alaska trip after being on the road for 6 months we purchased a Vintage BlueBird coach for our full time travels, but kept the Born Free…we use it when we leave the coach in Florida for travels back to our house in CT. We plan on sending the BF to Europe by boat, so we can travel and tour for a couple of six month seasons over the next few years. We have always traveled in the BF with our two dogs and have used the Onan 4kw generator and the roof top A/C to keep the dogs cool in extreme heat conditions. Great way to travel, very flexible… nice to have a full bathroom and be totally self contained. Parks in a regular parking spot with a grass strip behind or in a double stack parking spot.
Born Frees are awesome.. but to my knowledge, they make/made Class-Cs – not Class-B? Larger than what we’re seeking right now.
Exciting! I’m sure it will sort itself out as more info comes in. Sure will make things so much easier for you three. Happy hunting and best of luck!
Just curious, how far afield are you all willing to go in search of a used B? There’s a small dealer in Gainesville that specializes in just that —outside of the occasional B+ or small C, the core of the business is the Bs. When we were throwing around such an acquisition (we’ve tabled it until Dear Son heads to college), I checked out what they had and was favorably impressed.
Making a trip up to Sunshine RV is definitely in the plans over the coming weeks.
Looks like fun! Just remember…if it gets overwhelming…..your worst day RV shopping is better than your best day at work. Happy shopping!
Not sure that’s true in our situation… our days at work are pretty darn awesome, from our RV or boat doing what we love (helping RVers and boaters out with mobile internet) 😉
Totally exciting! As owners of a 42 foot motorhome which we JUST purchased last summer the thoughts of smaller are still swimming in our heads. Good luck with your search!
Used Leisure Travel Van. Used makes the price competitive with other options. Is the best quality of the bunch. Size gives you the flexibility to use it a little or a lot.
Have you considered renting a one-way trip unit for your semi-annual treks? This would allow you to keep your current runabout, and have a comfortable transit vehicle without needing to deal with a large-ish unit year round.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
We have considered that.. but wouldn’t give us all the other benefits, and would put us on a schedule for the cross country trips to meet a return date (and one-way rentals aren’t as easy to come by.)
All true. We rented for a few years when we were transitioning from Volkswagen campers to regular RV’s. Invaluable information, and we hadn’t needed a permanently-ours unit because we were both still working full time.
We are in the throes of buying a 2009 Pleasure-Way at the moment and are thrilled with the prospect. Like your situation, it is to replace our Sportsmobile Class B and will supplement our Lazy Daze Class C unit. We will also keep our minivan for ’round town use, as dragging a Class B (even the Sportsmobile ) around town gets old.
Best idea Judi !
I have a Safari Condo Alto trailer. Well made and very light. They have no sales or service in the US. They do use many components common to US made RVs.
I think since you like more off-beat locations that a off-road vehicle would make sense. Poorer gas mileage, probably less spacious, but able to go places the bus never could.
I’ll enjoy following your selection process. I think RV’s are one of life’s more interesting product selections. The require many compromises, size, weight, cost (both initial and operational), and capabilities.
We’ve heard great things about Safari Condo, but also sounding like it’s a bit tricky to get one a US citizen. Off-road capable isn’t a high priority for us in this particular vehicle.
Most economical SOLUTION . Move the boat to Lake Meade in AZ ($30,000) . Lovely weather to boat nine months of the year . Then the big bus in Benson for the other three months . Keep the Mini for the commute .
Your welcome . Happy to help .
I hear that Lake Meade is beautiful to explore by boat – but I don’t think it would hold our interest as a permanent aquatic home. We have so many amazing places yet to explore on the east coast.
I don’t think Lake Meade has many ports to rival Washington DC, New York, or even Jacksonville. *grin*
I have a 2007 Roadtrek 190 Popular. When parking in cities, you have to be concerned about the height. I learned the hard way that parking garages are not your friend. It’s not just the height, but also the hair pin turns in garages.
If you are considering a Winnebago Travato there is a couple that have a great blog about travels and what they have done to their Travato. You perhaps know them from your travels, but I wanted to mention just in case you did not. The Fit RV https://www.thefitrv.com/ .
We’ve not met in person yet, but we have communicated with them in the past – probably a good time to reach out to them. Thanks for the reminder!
We were in a 19′ Pleasure-way (wide body) & it was nice. It would just fit into most parking spots.
When we had ‘too much stuff’ with us we used a tray attached to the rear receiver (with an extension to clear the rear mounted spare tire). When the tray was attached the rig was really too long for most normal parking spaces.
Being able to fit into a standard parking spot is a good thing! As long as it’s not too tall you can day to day with it just like you would with a non-RV.
The Pleasure-way had the RVIA sticker so we could go to parks that required self contained.
What a great idea. I can see how a small RV would make transitioning much more comfortable. You have done an incredible amount of research and now you have shared it with us. Thank you.
Love, love, love my pleasure way ascent! No rattles, drives like a dream, added screens to all openings so I can leave slider open. Can park easily in town or park!
What a great idea! Looking forward to your posts re: this new journey. It’ll be fun to see what you choose. How about having a “Name Our Van” contest for your readers?
Hah.. that would be fun.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on all of these.
Hi,
Nothing wrong with small. Have you considered a 22 foot class c? I’d look at these units, too! https://pleasureway.com/
We toured all the Pleasure-Way models at the Tampa RV Show, and even met the CEO. A great company, and an impressive product line.
You guys are full of twists. Have enjoyed following your evolution from small to large and back again.
This is all well and good: so much detail and analysis, BUT…. Which of these had the best cat friendly options? Which was most purrrfect?
We’ve given Kiki all the brochures we picked up, and she has been mulling them over. We patiently await her royal decree as to the best choice.
While you are looking at the B’s, you might want to consider the Provan Tiger – built on truck bodies. Not a removable truck camper as it is totally connected to the truck with a “walk through” from the front to the back. I had one for several years and now have a 2018 PleasureWay Lexor. As far as build quality is concerned, I think they are comparable – both the best.
Thanks.. we’ll put it on “the list” to research further.
WOw! Looking forward to hearing more.
And thanks, once again you’ve done the footwork for so many others. Sharing on CRVL
Chris & Cheri, going with a class B van camper sounds like a good idea in your situation. You seem to have covered all of the reason to get one. I only thought would be that buying a new one might result in a purchase of a lower quality at a higher price than buying a used one. At least in Central Florida, the used Class B campers I looked at are all well taken care of, and seemed to be better made than the new ones I’ve looked at over at the RV dealer in Palm Bay. Either way, it will be more comfortable than camping in the mini!
Now that we’ve started with the state of current options, it’s time delve into the used options. It’s all a process. 🙂 I think almost anything will be more comfortable than camping in a MINI 😀
Interesting plans. I’m always mock horrified when I travel in my car now “Wait, this doesn’t have a bathroom or a kitchen?!??” (It is set up with a bed and a fridge/solar though.) I DETEST motels, have weird/light sleeping schedules and habits, and hate most beds. So those are just not an option for me.
Anyway, random comments after reading:
1) I think you are right to stick to small. I started with a 17′ Ford van based Sportsmobile. I easily did things like whip into a mall and park in any old spot to run into the Apple store. Just like a car (for the most part). Any place I wanted to leave it, it was pretty much like a car.
2) Since I’m full timing (when I’m not boating), I moved up to a 21′ small Class C (7’7″ wide). Yes, it technically still fits into a parking spot, but I don’t usually do that. I just don’t want that tight of a fit. So I park out along the edges like a big RV most of the time. That is no problem for me, BUT that would completely change if I wanted to stuff it into a marina parking lot like a car. Back to the 17 (or 19) footer. Especially when you consider that this is your transport cabin, not your “home” (as your bus and boat are). Sure you want to be comfortable, but three or four weeks a year I’d rather *slightly* camp then I would drive a 21-footer every time I wanted to run to town as a car or ask if I could park in a marina spot. Also you mentioned that you may often camp in parks anyway (facilities). So maybe even a Porta Potti or cassette toilet for nighttime or just times you don’t want to get dressed and go out in public?
3) If the money is no issue, new is nice. And it may not be. I also totally get not having a workshop (the one thing I miss!).
So what would I do? Well even if money were kinda no object, I’d probably do a used van, or do a very minimal conversion on a new van (or pay someone). Mostly just because I’d rather put the money into my “big” homes, and also I’d just prefer a lower systems intensive vehicle if it’s going to be sitting in a marina parking lot, running to the store, etc. I wouldn’t want to worry about big battery systems sitting in the sun, more systems to winterize, etc. (I don’t mind those things on my primary vessels.)
So I think I’d (that’s key; I’m not you) probably get a short Transit or Promaster, maybe even a window van. Put in a bed platform, a Porta potti, and then a minimal solar/fridge system like I have in my car (100ah AGM, Victron controller, 100w of solar/200 if not a small car, Dometic 50 liter compressor fridge (this fridge system ROCKS for grocery shopping – I can buy ice cream in the morning, do town errands all day, and then even not bother to unload the groceries if I get home and am tired). Maybe modular tubs for gear (I disliked cabinetry in the SMB because that meant I had to carry items to and fro when loading up for a trip, rather than just pack tubs). That’s probably much more minimal than you want, but maybe some food for thought (even if it’s just “NO WAY that’s nuts!”). Oh, I also feel better about leaving a vehicle like that in not-always-totally-secure parking lots. Doesn’t look TOO fancy, and also easier to re-do if stolen or vandalized.
A last consideration is ground clearance. You have gotten by with a Mini, so you know whether that’s something you want to weight or not. Some of the “fancy” Class B’s have “ground effects” or added storage that makes them really vulnerable that way. Even if it’s not about traction, you may want to get over that hump at the road…
I love thinking out of the box, and hate being without my bed/refrig/bathroom, so this is fun to read about.
Not having something too fancy can be important in some parking situation for sure.
We do want something semi-comfy for extended trips, and something to look forward to doing smaller excursions from the boat for camping trips, attending RV events and stuff like that. (And maybe something our parents would enjoy borrowing when we’re not using it?)
I don’t think a minimalist setup would work for us… well, not think, pretty much know. We did a full year full time in a T@b with minimal systems – been there, done that. Don’t need to get that T-shirt again 🙂
If this comes through twice, I apologize. But it didn’t seem to go through the first time.
Fair enough. I was really talking about what bothers me, not you! (I can barely keep up with my 21′ RV and my boat, and I hate worrying about unattended things.) Also I know you would like more comments, so I “elaborated.”
I will stick with my comments on length though. Just for perspective, I don’t mind driving large vehicles – I actually enjoy driving even 40-footers just for the pleasure of driving a large machine. I would LOVE to drive your bus, with that 2-stroke purring along and the big steering wheel 🙂
And I’ll take my narrowish 21-footer just about anywhere. Plus it is much more comfortable as a full-timer (than my 17′ Class B was) and has all the mod cons (bathroom/shower/etc.). But if I already had a larger RV and was looking for a combo daily driver/tripper? Then I would prefer my 17′ Sportsmobile (Ford van). Or at least something closer to that if a bit more modern. It was not super minimal and I didn’t have to do any outfitting myself to speak of. Just bought and went. It came with running water/grey tank, refrigerator, cabinets, couch, swivel seats, microwave, double bed, opening/screened windows, etc. Just a porta potti though (19-foot SMBs more likely to have bathrooms).
The Sportsmobile cabinetry back then (can’t speak to now) was fairly basic/cr-ppy. Not that it fell apart but it was 3/4″ MDF put together with angle brackets. Mine was “wood grain” but many are white or light grey (which I would have preferred). I think they have probably upped their game at least somewhat by now but it’s probably not up to the style standard of what you saw at the show or something like a T@b. OTOH, you can design what you want and the layouts tend to be varied and interesting (if buying used).
Anyway, in summary, it might have been better to have kept my comments to the length question, which was more germane and didn’t make it sound like I hadn’t read your post and specs (which I did, but I went astray anyway, oops). My opinion is that sure, it’s easy to “wow this is nice” your way up into a 22-24-footer, but then again it’s not your primary home and is more like your “cabin” plus daily car.
Will be fun to see what you turn up with! The options really are amazing these days.
Luna
How about road testing different units short term lease , and and write about ,good and bad ?
That sounds way too much like work 😀
Fair enough. BUT that’s the sort of analysis I’m missing from Technomadia in your recent laid back life. Just sayin’
I don’t think we’ve ever gone out and purposely purchased multiple versions of anything and reviewed them just for analysis here on the blog? Our content has always been just sharing what we’re up to, what we’re utilizing and our thought processes. Just like when we shopped for our boat, our bus, or our past trailers – we’re sharing what we’re considering and will share how we came to decide on what we purchased. How is this different?
Now, we do compare & review mobile internet gear – but that’s our job over at mobileinternetinfo.com. Come join us there if that’s your interest 🙂
Our local dealer, Lakes Region RV, has lots of new and used Class B’s in stock including a new SS Agile with the e-trek package for less than the MSRP of a base model. And they are wiling to negotiate prices. https://www.lakeregionrvs.com
I think even ‘less than MSRP’ on a new unit is beyond what we can justify for this purpose 🙂 And.. Minnesota, isn’t it cold up there this time of year? 🙂
Have you considered an older model Pleasure-Way? Ours is a 2007 on Ford chassis. It’s high quality, trouble free, and after looking at newer models, we plan to keep it forever.
We’ve always been fans of buying used high end models of RVs.. so that’s definitely an option for us.
I’m shy but I’ll surge on anyway. I’d like to add something about your size criteria. In my experience, turning radius is a bit more important than loa. We’ve had a Ford diesel E350 van to tow a 28′ bumper pull to both arts festivals and to the south in winter from Spokane, WA. Then we had a Chevy 2500 diesel PU to drag our two fifth wheels. The van was not the extended version and was about 18′ long as I remember and the truck was right at 20′. Neither were easy to park in crowded parking lots, usually requiring some backing and filling because they wouldn’t turn very tightly. Once we got into a parking spot, however, length wasn’t often a problem except occasionally in parking garages. In addition, and our initial surprise when we looked at garage clearance height signs, our normal-height van was too tall to fit in many parking garages. But I’m sure you already know that.
I’m thinking that unless you are trying to park in, say, the San Diego Zoo parking lot on a weekend, or in big cities, you probably will have much more trouble turning in to a tight spot than what’s sticking out when you finish.
CAVEAT: WMMV of course.
Indeed – turning radius matters a lot, and will definitely be something we look closely into.
Our Toyota Tundra we used to tow with before we switched to the bus actually had a worse turning radius than our bus does – and it was really eye-opening to see how much the inability to a do a U-turn impacted our travels when we shifted from the Jeep Liberty to a Tundra back in our trailer days.
– Chris
What a great idea! What a luxury ( because of hard work) to be able to enjoy all three options of the boat, the zephyr and now a new option. We have seriously considered moving from a 43’ class A to a b+ for maneuverability and access to more locations. I look forward to your process. Thanks for sharing your info. I love the RV posts and your writings about technical and communication issues.
This sounds great! Maybe you can find someone that can modify a good used van into what you want. I think of the new T@b’s that have inside kitchen, wet bath and living/sleeping area all inside the small shell. If it all can fit there it can fit a van too. Having someone that can do the work-it can be what you want to have and quality items.
As we said above.. unless we can find the right converter without a long wait time, we don’t have much desire for expending time & energy doing something custom.
We met you a few years back when we had our 34’ Class A. I am sure you don’t remember, but we remember you. We have downsized to a Winnebago Travato 2018 K model and find it perfect for traveling back and forth between the coasts. There is a large wonderful facebook group, Travato Owners and Wannabes. Very friendly and helpful. Meetups are fun. Check it out.
Thanks.. the Travato is indeed winning a second look for us. We’ll get joined into the group and start lurking there.
Can’t really give you any advice, and some people may think you’re nuts by having the bus and shopping for another RV, but I think it’s a great idea. I used to be surprised at the number of people I’ve met on the road who have a motorhome or large trailer and have a smaller trailer or truck camper, also. It really makes it easier to plan some trips by having more than one option. I’ve been traveling in a 5th wheeler, but just recently bought an old truck camper. It’s been great so far. I’m at the point where the 5th wheeler is, basically, staying at an RV park in Bisbee, AZ, and the truck camper is my main “on the road” option. Good luck with the shopping.
We’ve been amazed too by the number of nomads we’ve encountered who have a ‘fleet’. Especially those splitting time between boats and RVs. Diversity and variety 🙂
No offense, but I’m going to be one of the folks in the “some people may think you’re nuts” category. You have a very large boat, and a complex and interesting vintage bus. Both require a huge investment in time and capital to purchase, maintain, repair and upgrade. (both which I am a huge fan of, BTW) Now you have a short term cyclical need, that being cross country transportation, for you two and a cat. You are proposing to complicate your lives and drain your savings, by add a new possession that needs significant investment in capital to purchase, maintain, repair and upgrade. This is a “want” , not absolute need, and will spend most of it’s time abandoned in parking lots scattered around North America.
There are so many reasons to NOT do this, you could write a book. Here is one of many……….You are lusting after the latest diesel Sprinter, yet many pros in industries like expediting, who have extensive experience with them, are real unhappy with the legendary unreliability and repair costs of trying to keep Sprinters on the road. Some of these folks are so disgusted with the never ending four figure repairs, dealers that think nothing of tossing thousands of dollars in parts at solving a problem (and failing) and the manufacturer’s “tough shit” response to stepping up to do the right thing, that they replace their Sprinters with gas Transits, and Rams. Add to that, modern diesels are meant to be used, hard and often. Sitting for months on end in a marina, is far from that. Finally there is no way to justify the expense of a diesel over gas, given the cost spread of the fuels and the other operating costs associated with diesel that simply don’t exist in a gas powered product. Nobody ever got a “REGEN FAIL” idiot light and a $7K repair bill on a gas motor.
For me, the big flashing red light here is the future. Nobody got younger today, and getting your first junk mail from AARP comes a heck of a lot faster than folks your age could possible believe. Now, since you both are quite smart, take the next 20 years of your investment portfolio, and run the numbers with and without a theoretical $75K that leaves shortly to buy a depreciating liability. A quick calc. at history market returns comes up with about $185K waiting for you in two decades. JMHO, but that’s a heck of a pile of cheddar to throw away over a van.
I realize that none of this will be popular on this thread. I realize that there may be a flood of Class B and Sprinter owners who swear that they are the greatest thing ever. Bottom line is there are far better uses for your time, effort and money, than spending six or eight month a year on-board, and the majority of the balance of your time in the bus, with an expensive Van depreciating, and weathering in a parking lot, a thousand miles away.
With all due respect… we absolutely know our financial situation and what we can afford (and not afford). Can you not trust that we have our retirement savings already set and approaching this wisely? We are working by choice to fund the extras we want in life NOW, we’re past ‘saving for the future’ in our portfolio. Indeed, a luxury we have worked hard for up to this point to achieve – we could early retire now, or we can enjoy the fruits of our continued labor.
And at what point did we say this was a NEED? This is mostly definitely a want.
Life is short – we’re not going to not do something we want because it would deny us more money in the future that we may or may not be around to use. And we have no heirs to pass along an estate to.
You are also making some rash assumptions. At what point did we focus on only wanting a diesel – just because we included some models that are?
Or that we’re spending $75k on anything?
Or that the van would be “depreciating, and weathering in a parking lot, a thousand miles away’ and spending most of its time abandoned in parking lots, The van will always be within a few miles of us (and more likely, just a few feet), and our ****DAILY DRIVER*** from both the boat and bus. It’ll only be ‘abandoned’ in parking lots as we move from marina to marina – a couple weeks at a time at best.
You obviously did not read this post in full or understand the use factor we are looking at this from.
Back when we were looking at B’s for a similar travel style, we narrowed in on Pleasure-Way and Regency – both seemed to be above the others in terms of fit and finish in a standard B. That said, we wanted to use ours for slightly more extended trips (we were downsizing from a 40′ DP for a few years), and while there were a lot of things we liked about Pleasure-Way’s XLMB and XLTD, we preferred the floorplans and exterior lines of Leisure, so we now have an LTV Unity and love it. But it’s a widebody, and 25′ long, so probably not the way you want to do.
Take a look at the used market for LTV’s previous B models – the Free Spirit on the MB Sprinter as well as the GM-based Libero. I believe the Free Spirit’s were built through the 2015 model year and Libero might be through 2016.
We loved the LTV Unity.. but it is too big for this purpose. Thanks for the tip on their Class-B options, we’ll dig into the research.
You’ll find something to accentuate your awesome lifestyle.
Interesting plan, except for the cost. When you think with you paid for Why Not at 50 ft with twin motors etc the class B,s are too much. Whatever happens I will be going along with you in your blogs and videos, it is fun living with your trips with no cost to me. Really liked the boat trip up the river.
Yeah, we can’t justify the cost of new.. which is why the next step is looking into our used options. But, size doesn’t always equate to cost. We have to look at it from the functionality side of things and what it adds to our life.
Hi guys!!! Can’t wait to follow your trip from Florida to the Chesapeake Bay!!! You two are great!!! Please keep up the good work!!!!
Thanks for the write up. It is always nice to see comparison among models and types of RVs!
I really enjoyed reading the post and following your search for a new vehicle. Good luck and keep us posted. The right one for you is out there!
Ooooo! Fun! Best of luck in balancing the trade-offs; I will be excited to hear what you choose!
Looking forward to following during your hunt for the perfect Class B. I have been looking at Class Bs for awhile. Unfortunately what I want doesn’t seem exist. I need a cross between a Class B and Class C – permanent bed, dry bath, lounging (emphasizing “lounge”) area – not that uncomfortable seat behind the driver seat in most Class Bs.
Have you looked at the Leisure Travel Vans? They really are a great use of space and provide a lot of those features.
Check out Creativity RV. She has a Leisure Travel Van, albeit with slides.
Such a decision. At least you won’t mull over this too long and become disenchanted with the whole idea. The price of some of the new B’s is more that a decent condo. Amazing.
Our final two options are a Leisure Travel Van and the Phoenix 2552
Thank you so much for the RV Solar info!!! Awesome resources you have shared! Blessings in finding the right solutions to your Toad transportation search.
David